How to Feed a Lawyer (and Other Irreverent Observations from the Legal Underground)

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WV Lawyer

Connecticut Lawyer -- I agree -- by the time you spend 12 hours trying to figure out a way to ruin some other guy's day, listening to a judge you used to practice against tell you what the court rules mean and how she always abided by the time constraints and rules and expects strict compliance with same in her courtroom and you of course pull the file with the motion for summary judgment she wrote in a case against you where she cites not one case, statute or any other supporting authority, attaches no exhibits, transcripts, affidavits, and it was filed by facsimile one day before the pre-trial conference -- and that is one of her better work products, then back to the office to met with a client who has a neighbor who drove his lawn tractor through the backyard fence because after 5 years of living next to the client, the neighbor decides the fence must be on his property and the cops won't help them and they want you to do, but they don't know when they can come up with the full retainer, but will you take . . . you know how it is and then home to the wife and kid and somebody needs something done around the house right now and on and on and on. . .

Another CT Lawyer

Oh my God! It was like I wrote that other CT lawyer's post. Creepy. It is all so fucking hopeless. The wife and kiddies can't adjust back to life before the big money came. I am barely staying sane trying to keep the practice going so they can keep it all. I have to get completely drunk every Friday just to be able to face the new week. You can imagine what else I do besides the booze as far as sedation. I bet most of us have the multiple prescription bottles and the age-predictable sedatives at hand to deal with our waning desire to continue life in this job. All the other lawyers I know well do their own version of this hopelessness/sedation routine. I am glad it is a sin to kill myself and steal because I would otherwise do almost anything to escape this job. God knows I've tried to come up with a plan to take what we've got and get out of here, but the wife and kiddies just can't cope with the idea of any change. CT is the slimiest snobbiest place to be, next to LA. Each day I keep saying "just a few more years" but I know it is slim chance to none I'll ever escape this job or this place. The addiction to the money and sedation it brings is insidious. My wife knows the truth as she was my secretary for several years, but she can't get past her own burnout and sense of failure. I have told her she was awesome to do what she did, but contact with this business has left her emotionally crippled. See you in court. End of line . . . .


For the people who have tried to find articles about lawyers committing suicide on google and in the news - you won't. I worked at a firm once that had 3 messy, awful suicides and the deaths either didn't make the paper or made the obits as "sudden" deaths. Another firm's well know partner killed himself and we found out how only through word of mouth. Families just don't want the universe to know some of the uglier details, I can't blame them.

It happens, believe it.


Some of the posters raise another issue (directly or indirectly) that, I think, contributes to lawyer depression: the competitive, backstabbing nature of many of a lawyer's relationships. Often the work is unfulfilling in the most fundamental sense: grinding, repetitive, difficult or complex but not genuinely hard, and the costs of errors are huge. There are no spiritual rewards to much of lawyering, you are merely saving money for some corporation -- or not. Add that to the hours, pressure, beaurocratic nonsense, and many of the other "atmospherics" of firm practice, you reach a point where I think any normal person would be depressed.

But pessimism and perfectionism are definitely personality traits that make the situation worse, in my limited experience. And as far as that goes, I DO know lawyers who have committed suicide. Including young lawyers (one had only been in the profession for a year). Some people when they discover that they hate the job are unable to admit to failing at anything - including choosing a career, or an "investment" as most have to see the insane amount of money and effort that they put into becoming lawyers.

I am an odd case. I started suffering from clinical depression as a result of a metabolic problem by age 12. I get more done suicidal than most people get done on a good day: but sometimes I can really feel it. I know how this profession FEEDS the beast in my head if I give it a chance. And for every lawyer I know whom I would designate genuinely clinically depressed, I know 10 or more who hate their job and are living day to day in an environment they loathe. They keep positive with dreams of doing something else or with the certain knowledge that they pay for a lifestyle they want for their family. Even if they are never around to enjoy it.

The profession needs to talk about this, and rather than arguing about how "the statistics can possibly be right if I don't know a single suicide," why don't we start wondering how we can save just one bright life that is going to be wasted? The telling statistic, to me (and anecdotally beyond accurate) is that virtually no practicing lawyer would counsel their own children to go to law school. Now if you will excuse me, I have to grind out an LLC operating agreement, deal with an abusive client, get home and make dinner and do some laundry, drink a large scotch and go to bed.


Lawyer suicides? Three New Jersey attorneys whom I knew personally have committed suicide, one whom I know personally attempted suicide recently, and I have read newspaper accounts of the suicides of at least two others.

What I find surprising is that I am not personally aware of any lawyer murder-suicides. The problems in the profession arise from interactions with mean-spirited adversaries, boneheaded judges and impossible clients. You would think that if we're going to kill ourselves we might want to kill some other people in the process. I certainly find the thought appealing; like the executioner in The Mikado, I've got a little list- they'd none of them be missed.


I went on antidepressants and anxiety meds for the first time during my first (summering) law job. The partner who hired me was an asshole who played me and the other summer student against each other. The other student (a geeky male) and I spent our time hiding our work from one another and watching over one another's shoulder. Soon in the game, it became clear that my co-worker was the favored one but I still didn't know if I was out of the running because there could have reasonably been two articling jobs (in Canada, articling is an apprenticeship that you have to complete before being called) available. I asked asshole partner point blank if I had a chance on two separate occasions. Both times he evaded my question. Finally, two weeks before the end of my contract (at a point when most of the articling jobs for the following year had been filled), he told me that they didn't have an articling position for me. I lost it (did not make a scene but was visibly upset) and asked for an explanation. The reason I was given was that I wasn't confident enough. This after I had spent a summer trying to cope with the mind games, put downs, and nastiness. Apparently it did not occur to said partner that if you want employees to have confidence in their position, you don't threaten them with job insecurity and make them second guess their every move. Why couldn't said asshole at least have informed me earlier in the summer so that I had a chance to look around for an articling job with another firm? No answer there.

Against all odds, I did manage to find an articling position with a "good" firm in the fall of my third year of school. I went off the meds, wrote off the shit summer job as an one-off and looked towards the future. I finished school, started the articling job and worked my ass off like my life depended on it. I should mention that the firm is an IP boutique firm. The first sign of trouble came when I was receiving instructions for a memo from a senior associate, who, in the middle of his dictation, all of a sudden said: " You're not going to become a patent lawyer anyway". I most certainly had not said anything stupid to deserve that comment. I had been nodding and taking down his instructions. By way of background, I'm an attractive woman who may not look like the typical patent lawyer. I can't understand what else might have motivated that comment.

The partners at the firm seemed to enjoy chatting me up at company events but all but ignored me at work. I was friendly, proactive and by their own account did good work. Nevetherless, in the spring, I received a call from the hiring partner at home telling me that I "wasn't a fit to be a partner". No further explanation was forthcoming. Certainly, the partners could not have had enough info to make that decision since they hardly interacted with me. The other student, a woman, was also asked to leave. The only female associate at the firm asked rhetorically on hearing that neither of us had being hired whether you needed a dick to work at the firm. Back on the meds I went. I had put so much into the job, both emotionally and physically. I was exhausted and bitter. I felt like a fool for taking the job so seriously when the partners had such little serious regard for me. Sure enough, the next batch of students, mostly male geeks, got taken into client meetings and given training that I had never seen.

I finished with the firm in July. On my last day, no one said goodbye to me or thanked me for my work. The hiring partner hadn't bothered to send out an email letting people know when I was leaving. I was ignored after the news of my firing (?) came out and went for days without anyone talking to me. I spent the time teaching myself what the firm was supposed to be teaching me as part of my articles. I have not worked since, by choice. I can't stomach looking for another job in an industry where people treat one another like absolute shit. I'm off the meds again because of side effects that I don't want to put up with for life. I don't know if law, at least IP law, is doable without meds. I had a good career that I quit to go to law school. Now I'm wondering if that was a mistake. I didn't make big bucks but at least I had my mental health and the respect of those I worked with.


I wanted to add one thing to the list of reasons for attorneys to be depressed. As I do public interest work in a small family friendly group, I see my kids and spend time with them, teach Sunday School and generally have fewer lifesyle problems than y'all in big firms. (I am however, broke off my ass, just so you feel a little better.) What is currently driving me crazy is the weight of the responsibility for my clients and a general feeling that I'm a fuck up because I'm not winning more often. Sure, I'm the go to gal for all the "litigation" in the office. However, when I don't know what the hell I'm doing most of the time and have to lead the rah rah team for even less experienced crew, I don't feel great, I feel like a fraud. Sure, I looooove depositions. Nope, never even seen one, but what the hell? It'll be fun! Sure! Let's do a trial in federal court, what are lawyers for anyway? I can do that! Hah! I've run out of bluster and I am currently cringing in my office, hoping and praying that no one makes me do one more thing that I don't know a damn thing about. Lord, save me from malpractice. Because it's one thing to lose when you don't give a crap about your client and it's another thing when you realize that you, yes, you, the well meaning, social worky gal who can't pay her student loans, are just one more part of a dysfuntional system that is designed to keep the poor in their place. Yeah. That's why I'm so fucking depressed.


Fpr the guys in Connecticut whose wives are hooked on the cash. The one thing I don't regret is encouraging my husband to leave the job he hated as an attorney for a large unnamed government entity. Being broke has been difficult and it's taken him a long time to find a job he wants, but in the meantime, he's been an awesome awesome dad. He's closer to our kids than I imagined he could be and is the go-to guy for everything that really matters. Just so you know, non-profits desperately need the litigation experience that you guys can offer. Good luck finding more peace and happiness.

A Canadian artilcing student

I cannot believe how similar my experience has been to "grumpette's". I started artilcing at a big firm and quit a month later because I was so depressed I could barely work and had thoughts of suicide. Why was I so depressed? Perhaps it was because the other student's father-in-law was partner and was treated more favorably; maybe it was because my friendliness and collegiality went completely unreciprocated; maybe it was because even the most frivilous details of my personal life became the subject of juicy gossip; maybe it was because I sensed, after about three weeks, that I was persona non grata to everyone in the firm. Never in my life have a met a more miserable, pessimistic, cynical, life-hating group of people. And stupid. (note: close attention to frivilous and inconsequential detail can make you a babbling idiot). And it will rub off on you, as much as you'd like to float above it. Those who appear happy seem to be either very oblivious and stupid or conditioned to obey authority to the point of self-immolation. All those things they say in the interview about how the firm is so collegial and humane is a bunch of bullshit bandied about by the best liars out there. I hate this stuff. I thought I would find meaning in this career, but there is none. I thought I would be respected and appreciated for my talents, but I'm not. I thought I would be intellectually challenged and stimulated but instead I photocopy and file things. I thought I might take pride in serving justice, but there's little opportunity for justice to be served. I'm at a small firm now which is slightly better, but with the same aggravations. I drink every night. I also frequently smoke pot. After I get my call, it's bye- bye to the profession. I don't care if I have to spend another four years at school if it means saving my life. No joke. If you're reading this, I sympathize with you.


I believe that some of the naysayers are headed in the wrong direction. I have been practicing for over 17 years, and have migrated to other businesses, but as a lawyer. The study of law is very good training academically; but the profession is a terrible awful life. I have depression and am fighting it after hospitalization and therapy. After much self-reflection, I simply hate lawyers and the profession. I am a corporate lawyer, with much training in tax and securities. Accomplishing business deals should be simple compared to the total bullshit of litigation; nevertheless, the antagonistic, hostile, zero-sum, non-collaborative environment still is pervasive. Recently, I attempted to negotiate a simple employment agreement for a client. Opposing counsel sent me an agreement with a complete unilateral release included so that as soon as the agreement had been signed, it would have been completely unenforceable. Had I recommended the client sign it, I told him that he could have me disbarred and would prevail, likely on summary judgment for malpractice.

The statements on firm culture are exactly my experience. No training is offered, isolation is rampant, most senior attorneys are sadistic at best, and nothing is ever good enough, even though it is perfect. Teamwork is a foreign concept. Associates are expected to be clairvoyent. Personnel policies and performance reviews are nonexistent, if not worse; but the firm's tout their "family culture"... I know of one lawyer who as an associate, closed the largest deal in a firm's history, single handed to the extent he was hospitalized. The partners on the management committee had bets that he couldn't do it, and when it closed he was yanked in front of that committee demanding to know when the fee was going to be paid - his response was that it was wired at closing and in the firm's account. Yet I have practiced with partners who were clearly commiting malpractice frequently (moreover, many went to Ivy's)and when confronted, label you as "hard to work with".

For years, I was scared shitless of even discussing depression with anyone for fear of becoming a pariah. Self-medication is also a problem that I have; yet the firms that I have worked for, a clear alcohol culture existed. One partner I worked for was a falling down drunk alcoholic everytime we went out. Although told that I am a very good intelligent lawyer, I harbor significant doubts as to self worth, etc. I have never hurt anyone but myself. Yet I know "revered" members of the bar that are sadists, alcoholics, sexual predators (one had sex with two married women in a dictation booth in the library, got her pregnant, and was threatened with murder by the husband - he's still at the firm), wife cheaters, multiple divorcees... But they are beyond reproach, much like the emperor's new clothes. The profession is so ripe with hypocrisy; yet all it does is offer lip-speak.

Most of all, in my reflections, I realized that no attorney I ever worked for thanked me for any work I did. Resignation from the bar is not a bad option.


I am a 1st year - 1st semester law student and I certainly am having some problems with depression. I try to rationalize that my classmates are as lost as I am, but I'm not always convinced. Perhaps the enviornment is just structured so that people can't show weakness. All I do is work. The only life I have takes place in the breaks inbetween. I work a half dozen hours on end to the point where I am staring blankly at the page - then I take an intensely guilt-ridden couple of hours off to 'relax' and contemplate how behind I am in reading, how its mid-November and I haven't been able to do any practice exams or any of the other two dozen things I'm supposed to be doing. Isolation has certainly set in. I'm doing my best but that doesn't seem to compete with my peers' bests, they of course portray it as if they have no problems at all. Machines. Make no mistake about it, even just posting this is a serious academic setback. All I get is looks of disapproval and disappointment from professors when in a Socratic drilling I can't reason quickly enough. There is this notion that I owe a duty to be a hell of a lot better than I am; it's really hard to keep my self-esteem out of it. Now, still weeks from exams, exhaustion is giving serious diminishing returns on work. I'm 23 and I have all but the last symptom on that list. Is this what practice is like? Is there no job that approximates closer to 50 hours a week than 80? They can have their big money and condecending attitudes - All I wanted was job security and rent money.


I have heard it said that becoming a lawyer is a "calling" like becoming a medical doctor. You have to really, really, really want to be a legal warrior. You have to want to live up to the designation "esquire". If you do not know what the word esquire means, perhaps you should not be an attorney.

I think that I learned it all too late. Becoming a lawyer was not a calling for me. I did very well in high school and in college. I was the first in my family on both sides to graduate from college and was pressured into taking the next step, namely law school. I did not know what I was in for. I thought that because I was scholarly and had nearly a 4.0 through most of my education that law school would be as easy as college, after all, my father reminded me, "There are a lot of stupid lawyers out there, if they can do it, so can you." This coming from a man who dropped out of college in his freshman year.

Now I am a practicing attorney. I clerked for the jerks for a time but now I am out on my own. I love the autonomy. I love the freedom in my schedule and the prospect of making more than working for someone else while making them rich. However, it is very lonely work and the struggle of competing for clients is tough. I am not making anywhere near what I could be working for an established firm--yet. I am driven by the potential. Often I am stressed by the loneliness and the frustration of clients who do not understand why the law moves so slowly. Often the stress comes from other attorneys who want to win more than they want to see justice done.

Law school does nothing to prepare us for the real world of practice. I believe that law schools sugarcoat things because they want to encourage enrollment. The legal profession should be different. Justice is usually only found for those who can afford it. There are so many students in law school right now that perhaps a revolutionarily change in the process of law should be made in this country. Perhaps legal education should be more like medical education.

Sometimes I am very depressed and work hard not to let my wife or others know. I do not self-medicate but I understand why others do. Lately I have been considering doing volunteer work. I don't have a boss that requires billable hours so I can spare the time to do things that may bring balance and peace of mind.

Here is something for others to consider. If you work for a firm and make $60,000 a year, but you work 60 hours a week in order to bill 30-40, you are really only working for roughly $20 per hour. If, on the other hand, you work for yourself and keep your overhead low, you can bill your clients $200 per hour for your services. In only 10 hours a week you would be making $8,000 a month, and well over $100,000 a year even after expense deductions. Plus you would have freedom in your schedule. I know, I know--there is fear in starting on your own because you don't have the experience. Well, most partners in firms don't educate their associates anyway. It is all on the job training. Why not get the training working for yourself instead? You have less stress of meeting billables and dealing with jerk bosses who yell at you for minor things.

I am not entirely happy yet, but I am a lot happier than I was working as a clerk and attorney at other firms.


Ouch. I left my practice in June 06 for a whole bunch of reasons, one of which was my upcoming surgery for two aortic aneurysms. Closed the doors, mailed and destroyed the files, moved to FL where my wife got a job teaching, and am now figuring out what to do with my life. I had been practicing solo in PA after a couple of partnerships dissolved. Everything from att murder trials to mergers to wills to family law to real estate and on and on. Depression big time. The good news is the vein graft took (obviously since I'm writing this post) the bad news is the depression got worse because of the loss of income and a sense of purpose (even if it was just plodding to the office to handle cases and support the family). I'm going to do some substitute teaching for a little while to see if I like being in the classroom - while I keep searching for a way to use my legal skills/training to earn money again. Looking back on the last 10 years my cardinal sin? Not taking time off. And when it hit the fan in 03, when I dissolved a partnership, lost my father in law to leukemia, my mother to an aortic aneurysm, one family dog to old age, another to getting run over by a car - all in a period of six months - I had no reserves of energy or good mental health to run on. I went for counseling and tried different anti-depressants but I guess I'm treatment resistant. When the aneurysms were spotted during a follow-up to kidney stone surgery in 05 that was it.

That was my second career, so I'm now 42 with a wife and kid, and no idea where I'll be a year from now. The only saving grace is some savings we accumulated while I was making good money, and a good price on our old home. When I was saying my goodbyes in PA, even a former partner of mine called and wished me luck, and lamented that every lawyer he knows, at one point or another, wants out. They just don't know what they would do with themselves after they left. I leaped before I looked, and I think that's probably a good thing, because leaping is like going from regular life to law school to practice - if you knew what was waiting you probably wouldn't go. Of course the alternative is to keep practicing and hating it. So I have an appointment with my new physician tomorrow and try some new meds - whoopee!

I recall reading an article somewhere on the internet that lawyers who leave the profession suffer financially as well as personally... May be an indicator that sometimes we get too tied up in WHAT we are rather than WHO we are. Then again, sometimes that's a way to keep your sanity when you're dealing with an asshole opposing counsel or judge, or even client.


I work all by myself. The fear is not making enough money to pay the bills. The other fear is bringing in too many clients all at once without support staff to help me.

It is hard to get up in the morning and face the challenges of the day alone.


just wanted to say thank you to the creator of this weblog; you can't know how much it's helped those in the profession who have read this


I finally went nuts and had to deal with life. I am in AA now. I stopped blaming it all on others and I am doing much better. I thought I could get by without relying on God and I failed, miserably. Sedation and partying are no solution. They made me insane. Now I am back at the wheel, one day at a time.

Tim Guth

I am a solo practioner specializing in criminal defense work. I was a government prosecutor for five years out of law school before going to work for a firm and then 7 years ago working solo. Best thing I ever did. I think every lawyer goes thru at some point in their careers the same thing the lawyers who posted the earlier comments have. The old adage, "the law is a jealous mistress" is so true. I think what actually drives us all nuts at some time or other are the time deadlines. Of course working with or against bastards doesn't help. What has worked for me is having a good friend who owns a bar. He not only refers clients but also gives me hell about asshole lawyers while we get drunk. If you don't do this once a week to unwind, guess what, you will get depressed. I am still a pessimist but as the article says, it actually helps keep me sane when you reflect on life. I was also a former Green Beret which I did after I went to law school but before I began practicing. The best advice I ever received was from a master sergeant Vietnam vet. Life is a bitch and then you die but everyday above ground is a good day. Keep the faith.


If a lawyer sees a shrink who is unable to cure him/her, but instead worsen their problem, the lawyer will sue the shrink, but the shrink CAN disclose whatever evidence gathered from therapy in his favour.

So who will win the case? Hmmm hmmm...
Maybe a simple thinker will think it's easy... lol


I'm a lawyer who is severely depressed. I wish I was dead but I'm too chicken to kill myself.


I'm a former law student who ended up quitting during 2L due to deepening depression and suicidal thoughts. I knew law school was supposed to be hard work, but I didn't truly understand the level of isolation, competition and general negativity that pervades the experience.

I entered, like most students, with a sense of idealism and a heartfelt desire to use my JD to "help people." However, by the end of my first year I did everything in my power to avoid thinking about my future. Every avenue looked like a dead end path to misery. Interactions with sadistic professors and my fellow prestige hungry students had squashed my ego, and on top of that, I didn't find the work intellectually stimulating or fulfilling.

The top law schools are overly focused on pushing students to their limits and serving as a feeder to "Biglaw." Despite our initial idealism, most of my circle of law school friends had been brainwashed by the culture of our school to set their longterm goals on hold for the prestige of a Vault-100 private firm job. This change of heart was justified to "pay off our loans." If you hadn't lined up the "right" kind of interviews during the summer, you are met with condolences from your colleagues (they are no longer your friends at this point due to competition and they occasional backstab). Of course, when the night of heavy drinking is over, they go home and celebrate your demise.

And just so you don't go screaming "sour grapes," I actually finished in the top half of my class during 1L and had plenty of opportunities. I'm just relating what I observed to be the general climate of law school. After reading this, I am glad I had the guts to walk away when I did. It sure doesn't sound like things get any better when you enter a career in law.


Its really a good site of self control,who is in depression of their problems who can make satisfied with this self management.


Dual Diagnosis http://www.dual-diagnosis.net

Mia Hunter

I have been practicing law for a little over ten years. After going defending hundreds of criminal defendants, finding out I had a snake for a law partner, and being on the grind as a solo practioner for years, I just decided to give it up. I was missing deadlines, barely checking messages.


It is very sad to hear that a profession is causing so much sadness and has created many mental health issues in its professionals - real people. One positive is that I hope young aspiring law students (like I once was) read sites like this one and think carefully whether is is the right career for them. The internet was not around when I started studying law - I proceeded blindly.

I practised law for several years and ended up in corporate/commercial law - I worked hard but realised fast that if I didn't get out of this profession I would end up like the senior lawyers I worked with everyday - stressed, no sense of humour, perpetually serious, miserable and little life outside of work. I remember 4 senior lawyers (including my mentor) telling me to get out of the profession and change direction - thank goodness for them and their honesty. On leaving law I was exhausted (with ME), depressed and lost - like my train had become derailed, but I soon enrolled on a Foundation in Art & Design to meet a different group of people and learn a new talent. I became energised again. Doing something different made such a difference to me - it reminded me of how happy I can be and how much fun can be had outside of law.

I am now starting at University again to study Design for Performance - I real contrast of a career but ever so wonderful - and no lawyers!! I have never looked back - yes I miss the money, fancy restaurants and annual bonus - but I never miss sitting in that office with an endless stream of stressful, uninspiring work and people facing me. I have the odd frustration at having to "start over again" and study with people much younger than me, but I soon realised that these are temporary things - I'll soon be working again and back in action earning money. I have hope of a happier career, nicer people to work with and more time to enjoy life's simple pleasures.

If this career is making you depressed - be brave and start exploring other possibilities - you can make a better decision with an older wiser head. I discovered myself again and realised that just because I made a decision at 18 it didn't mean that I had to stick with it forver. There are so many other fab careers out there and certainly more fulfilling ways to enjoy working life. If it makes you sad then it isn't right for you. If it floats your boat then stick around. It took me a long time to realise that working as a lawyer made me depressed - but that is just living, experiencing and learning - its just a job at the end of the day.

Deal with Depression

Great article. I think it really gives people a bit more perspective. BTW - a lot of those statistics apply to general anxiety disorder as well. I think they're accurate no matter what profession you're in. That said, this article will definitely give some friends second thoughts about law school.


Thanks alot for the information. Really appreciate it. I've Subscribed to your RSS feed for Further updated. I understand that, according to the National Institute of Mental Health, 15% of people with clinical depression commit suicide, not 15% of lawyers with depression. Lawyers are not people, generally. Just my personal opinion to Taint, who posted about not wanting people who see psychiatrists to be lawyers because it "raises too many confidentiality issues." I would suggest it does not. Between the attorney-client privilege and the doctor-patient privilege along with the 42CFR Confidentiality Rules I'd be perfectly comfortable

Best Regards,
Debra@Anxiety Cures

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